HD vs. DV Camcorders: Which Brands Hold Up Best?

[DannyG]

Another newbie question:

I've noticed talk of a "simulated 24P" versus a true 24P, which is confusing me. What's the difference between the two? We are talking about a progressive scan capture at 24 frames per second, correct?


And Jared, I noticed in your short a lot of motion blur. Was that simply because it's been compressed for the web?

 

[DerekEastham]

Simulated is just saying that it is still recording 29.97 frames... but it's only really capturing 23.98 that matter... and in post production you use a 2:3:3:2 pull down to remove the excess frames... as it's recently been clarified to me by an experienced editor & an even more experienced producer.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Most 24P cameras don't record 24P, but store the info in other ways. Even the Sony F900 stores 24P as two fields.

To me, "simulated 24P" means that the camera is actually capturing motion some other way, like 50i or 60i, and it may also be recording in those formats, but is simulating a 24P look by processing the image. The Canon XL1 NTSC, for example, has something called "frame mode" which makes something shot and recorded at 60i look like 30P photography. But it does not shoot at 30P.

"Real 24P" means that it captures motion 24 times a second as whole progressive-scan frames; whether it actually stores the image this way is another matter. Many cameras add a 3:2 pulldown to record the 24P footage as 60i.

As far as I know, the Sony HDV's "cine-frame" mode simulates a 24P, 25P, 30P look without actually capturing motion that way.

Then there is also the issue of editing in "true 24P" -- i.e. removing any pulldown from 24P-to-60i footage and editing it as 24P and not 60i, for example.

 

[SALLYNABIL]

I'd like to know the difference between HDV and DV cameras, does the difference reside in the resolution of the picture? Please give me some detailed information.

 

[Jared Isham]

I was reading in an article that what they have the camera do for the "simulated" 24p mode is they have the camera drop every 5th frame that it records, so in a 1 second period of recording at 30 fps it will drop 6 frames - 30 - 6 = 24. If that is true it is in a way 24 fps but not really 24 fps.

SALLYNABIL wrote:

i'd like to know the difference between HDV and DV cameras, does the difference reside in the resolution of the picture? please give me some detailed information.

As far as the difference between DV and HDV. DV is a standard definition format that records images at a resolution of 720 x 480, it is compressed on to a MiniDV tape in a standard DV compression format. HDV records images at 1280 x 720 or 1440 x 1080 onto a MiniDV tape in MPEG-2 format. The difference resides in the format recorded to the tape but to achieve an HDV image you must have a camera capable of recording it. As of now there are only three HDV cameras on the market: JVC GR-HD1, JVC JY-HD10U, Sony HDR-FX1 and then the Sony HDR-Z1U (which will be released in February) - JVC also has a 3 2/3" CCD ENG style HDV camera that will possibly be released within the next year or so with C-mount lens capability - it will be the most expensive out of all of them.

You can find out info on HDV at

 

[Digigenic]

JVC also has a 3 2/3" CCD ENG style HDV camera that will possibly be released within the next year or so with C-mount lens capability - it will be the most expensive out of all of them.

Not to sound like the nit picky forum ninny, but I recall the JVC ENG style HDV camcorder using 3 CMOS sensors, not CCD sensors. IMHO, it's a pretty big deal, considering Arri is the only other group employing CMOS sensor technology in their D-20 HD Cam, which reportedly has even greater advantages over Panavision's coveted Genesis, which of course uses a CCD provided by Sony.

The only other manufacturer I can see with the capabilities to follow with CMOS sensors in their HDV offerings would be Canon, being that they continue to set new standards with their own CMOS technology in their Digi SLR cams. They’ve been increasing their R&D and production of various CMOS sensors over the past couple years. Could be preparation for something big? 8)

 

[Jared Isham]

You're right, it is the CMOS sensors - to add to the abilities with CMOS sensors I read that they have the ability to refresh at different rates, meaning they are capable of shooting in variable frame rates - possibilities of "real" slow motion.

Anyway, thanks for catching that - I forgot about that.